how does positive scrub radius affect handling

    206 months Trophy Truck 1/4 to1/2” of scrub radius. For those who are into this sort of thing, I found a helpful explanation of how changes in scrub radius impact handling posted by someone going by the username "goldstar" on what appears to be a Mazda Protege forum. Drop a wheel off and the vehicle takes off into the ditch. Offset does affect handling. A lower positive wheel offset will typically result in the wheels being more flush to the fender, giving the vehicle a more aggressive look. Symptoms of modified scrub radius include the tendency for the steering wheel to 'rip' out of the … From experience, unless you are going ridiculous offsets (ie "deep dish" wheels), effect on scrub radius doesn't change enough to affect handling, etc. The scrub radius of your car can be altered with different wheel offset and suspension design. if a car has no scrub radius the car will act darty and will react too quickly to change. The scrub radius of your car can be altered with different wheel offset and suspension design. However since I do want to make an effort to maximize the handling and comfort of the suspension, how important is scrub radius? A positive scrub radius tends to be beneficial while braking into a turn. Industry norms are as follows: Sand cars 1/2 to 1” of scrub radius. cot δ o - cot θ = 2 e / y. cot δ o - cot θ = t / b. then form equation (*) and the above equation we can conclude (θ = δ i). An excessively negative scrub radius will require greater steering effort, while excessive positive scrub radius (where the tread center essentially moves further outboard) can not only affect handling and ease of steering, but also over-stress wheel bearings. The scrub radius is the distance in front view between the king pin axis and the center of the contact patch of the wheel, where both would theoretically touch the road. Scrub radius is one of those angles that are built into the vehicle and is non-adjustable. Effects of Positive Scrub Radius The scrub radius can affect the way the steering responds in both a straight line and during cornering. _____ 1994 LSi, Laguna Blue SVX Appeal 1992 LS-L, Ebony Pearl SVX -Rated ... Also, the wider your wheels and tires are, the more your scrub offset will affect the vehicle's handling. As with anything else, a little of a good thing is great, but lot of a good thing is not necessarily better. then cot δ o - cot θ = 2 e / y. since triangle D MAQ is similar to triangle D MCF e / y = (t / 2) / b. then . Positive Scrub Radius Lines Meet Below Road Surface Does anyone here have an idea of how to explain scrub radius? Does it matter if your scrub radius is positive or negative? the amount of wheel offset and the steering axis inclination effect the width of the scrub radius. For you, this means exerting more effort. If so, what is the affect either way? When your vehicle is too positive, it will cause the brakes to dart when you apply them. This will affect how the tire contact patch interacts with the road during cornering, braking, and acceleration, and can cause unique toe characteristics depending on the design. It would have been nice to include those info, but I guess that would be somewhat beyond the scope of the article. Both can create dramatically different handling characteristics at the limit, and for the street especially, all of those are highly undesirable. RichardD. The more I read, the more variables there are and the more they affect each other. If the two lines cross exactly at the tyre’s contact patch with the road, there’s no scrub radius, which I think is what TLC were singing about in their 1999 hit single No Scrubs. The Ultimate Handling Guide Part VIII: Understanding Your Caster, King Pin Inclination and Scrub By Mike Kojima Understanding what caster does and how to use it is a powerful tool in the box of a suspension tuner. If the lines cross below the contact patch, theoretically underground, then it’s positive scrub radius. Positive or negative scrub radius is relative to this point. Changing the diameter of wheels and tires affects scrub radius, as does the distance that the center of the wheel and tire sits relative to the vehicle body, which is called wheel offset. Scrub Radius- this is the tires turning radius about the steering axis. Howdy, Since I have the pleasure of redesigning my front suspension on my '64 Riviera, I can design for whatever offset wheel I want. Modern ABS-equipped cars have much smaller scrub radius, actually. 4% : Implementation of all the corrective actions, not only improved steering returnability by 40% but also helped in reducing the cycle time in design and validation by 80%. 1) It increases the front scrub radius, which can increase the steering effort and affect the feel and kickback. My guess, the RS is slightly positive since it's more of a performance car. A positive radius allows the wheel to roll over on lock making parking situations easier. Also with caster, if the angle is neg the weight of the car is before the steering so you get a car that is easier to steer. However, according to the tire sizing calculator at https://www.wheel-size.com this setup will increase the scrub radius by 1 7/32" and "may affect your the car's handling." The best you can do is measure it yourself to see how changing wheel offsets will affect it. SAI and camber also affect scrub radius since we are changing the angles that determine scrub radius. Positive scrub radius works well with suspensions that use dual control arms that use less caster and SAI to optimize geometry. Positive scrub radius would cause both a yaw moment AND a steering reaction in the same direction if you drop a wheel off the pavement. Positive Scrub Radius. C5, for example, has +0.275" up front. Braking in turn Steering effort : Scrub radius . Too much scrub radius magnifies this stress exponentially. More back spacing ( wheel offset) and larger steering angle narrows the scrub radius. The effect on handling would be what ? Disclaimer: [/B] Having ventured into the 2.5-2.75 positive scrub radius … I Know that it has to do with the relation between the pivot point of the steering tire and the centerline of the contact patch, but I do now know how it is affected by changing the offset with wider aftermarket tires. The scrub radius of your car can be altered with different wheel offset and suspension design. If some of this is good, more positive caster and KPA are not necessarily better. I know that the base Civic wheels are something like 17 or 16x7 w/ 45mm offset. A lot of people that choose a much lower offset end up modifying other components on their cars to compensate for fitment (i.e., rolling fenders, adjusting camber). So my question is, how much does 2mm affect the scrub radius, or the potential of increasing bearing wear, etc. The balance between positive caster, KPI and scrub radius is particularly critical in high powered FWD and AWD cars as all of these factors can really affect torque steer. This will affect how the tire contact patch interacts with the road during cornering, braking, and acceleration, and can cause unique toe characteristics depending on the design. I've never understood why it took until the 1970s to figure this out and I still don't understand why vehicles are built with a significant positive scrub radius today. Tramlining is very different to handling 'on rails'. 3,539 posts. Class 1 off road, 1/2 to 3/4” of scrub radius. All of the various rubber bushings and stock performance parts, designed with comfort for the typical driver in mind, are going to be the limiting factors that impact handling way before offset does. I'm basing most of the design off of the C5/6 Corvette and using the same upright. Automotive Videos. Scrub radius can be changed accidentally a number of ways. It is positive when the angle is inclined inward toward the center of the vehicle and negative when the angle is inclined outward. Negative scrub also helps reduce torque steer in front wheel drive cars. Hi, i had stock 205/65r16 with 6jj 50offset alloys & tires, Now i have uograded to 215/65r16 with 6.5j 40offset alloy & tyres, the scrub radius of positive 8mm has increased, its a rear wheel driven toyota body on frame MUV will it affect the handling & what about suspension life, is it going to take a toil. FWD and AWD cars, as well as IRS-equipped RWD cars, have small amount negative scrub radius for similar but different reasons. The thing is, I know this will alter the scrub radius (beside other things like bearing load, etc) and after reading something about this I didn't came to a certain conclusion regarding how this will affect the handling of a clio (182 cup suspension with 16" ET 37 … A positive scrub radius tends to be beneficial while braking into a turn. What if you had a vertical line as caster like a forklift does, how do you think the handling … The distance between where the SLA and the centerline to the wheel intersect the ground is called the scrub radius. That said, you're never going to feel it on the street and would probably have a hard time feeling on the track. Having a small scrub radius is beneficial as it allows the wheel to react less to braking inputs due to the smaller moment arm and increases steering stability under braking conditions. As the tire height and weight goes up, the scrub must go down. It either becomes smaller or larger. It would seem that scrub radius would have a much bigger effect with wider tires under heavier loads. If you increase width by 25mm, then your offset will need to change by 12.5mm to keep the same theoretical scrub radius - but changing caster and camber will also affect the steering weight too. Positive Scrub Radius. Different wheels or tires from side to side will cause differences in scrub radius as well as a tire that is low on air. Scrub radius : 2% . Only two three things can change scrub radius. When the engineers are designing a suspension system for a vehicle they need to take into consideration how the suspension impacts the handling characteristics of the vehicle not only when the vehicle is traveling down the road, but when braking, torque steer, and when a tire becomes flat. wish I knew how to extrapolate data and compare the scrub radius of a wider wheel with a higher offset vs thinner wheels with smaller offset.Would the scrub radius between those actually be the same? While included angle problems will affect the scrub radius, it is not the only thing that will affect it. cot δ o = (t/2 + e) / y. and cot θ = (t/2 - e) / y . I believe this would have more of an effect the way it's described in that thread, affecting things like steering weight and tramlining, as well as affecting toe under braking. A negative scrub radius gives a harder feel to the steering wheel as it requires more input to turn. Does anyone know what the factory scrub radius is on the SVX ... fender flexing needs to be done to get into positive scrub territory. With a positive scrub radius, the tire will not turn on its centerline, causing it to scrub the road when you turn. Effect with wider tires under heavier loads norms are as follows: Sand cars to! If some of this is good, more positive caster and KPA are not necessarily better since. More they affect each other in front wheel drive cars so, what is the tires turning radius the. The ditch this point as a tire that is low on air it is not better. Height and weight goes up, the RS is slightly positive since 's! ) it increases the front scrub radius tends to be beneficial while braking into a.. Positive when the angle is inclined inward toward the center of the article a! The more they affect each other but I guess that would be somewhat beyond the scope of the Corvette! 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